Multiple Shows Remain as Not Judged

I just noticed a number of shows that still show as 'judging in progress', some are from February this year and a couple from September last year. Reason I noticed is I went to change a detail on a model of mine and it would not allow as it was entered in one of these shows so I had to attempt to 'retract' it from the show (that in itself was a drama as it just sat and spun from doing it in the class so I went back and retracted from the model record itself). Is there a way to make sure shows get judged? It does take a lot of time entering and I personally don't have time nor energy to waste spending hours to enter a show that sits in the abyss and does not get finished....

I feel the same way, some shows won't even let you retract at all. Very frustrating.

Completely agree.

I made a post about this (on the Discord server) back in March of this year (2022). I retracted ALL my horses from a show hosted on OMHPS, back in September (!)— yes, you read that right: September of last year (2021) , because the show still hadn't concluded by March of 2022 (!)— nor was it anywhere near to being completed.

Sorry, but that is just completely irresponsible, IMO.

If a showholder cannot take responsibility for judging their show in a timely manner (within a month, at the most), then they shouldn't be hosting any shows at all, let alone judging.

Just sayin'..

Going forward from my last hosted show, I make sure to include a JUDGING TIME FRAME when setting up my shows (i.e. "we hope to have all classes judged and the show concluded within 2 weeks") - in fairness to reassure my entrants who take the time and trouble to enter my shows that classes will judged in a responsible & timely manner— not dragged out for months on end.

To retract the only way I could was to go into actual model record and do it from there - however to do a bulk lot would be a nightmare! No pun intended.

It is beyond annoying, I agree is irresponsible. Why bother setting up shows if you are not going to judge them? I understand if life happens, you get sick etc but you could still ask for help to get it finalised.

Maybe those that have unjudged shows could be prevented from holding more? I sure hope none of the unjudged ones are ones entrants have paid for. Which is why I pretty much won't enter any with fees, because of this. (Apparently similar happening on facebook, instagram etc)

Model owners spend hours uploading so if you have no intentions of judging the show then please don't start one in the first place. We all have lives as well, and things to do. The time I have spent uploading to such shows I could have spent on other things as I have so many things to do, I allocate time to things and the wasted time I could have better spent!

Right now, for unjudged shows we email hosts to give a reminder to judge their show after a few months of inactivity (so not slow judging, but no judging at all). If they don't respond within a certain time frame, we email again, then stating they have X amount of time to respond or their show will be "retired." Retired shows are automatically concluded. Any classes left unjudged are closed without results, classes that were judged keep their results. We've done this already for at least one show that was never finished and they never got back to us.

What seems to happen most is we email, no response, we email again with an ultimatum, they respond and say they are working on it, but it still takes a while. We'll be doing another round of these emails for late 2021 shows again soon, as those absolutely should be concluded by mid-2022 - any longer and it is simply unacceptable for all the entrants to wait that long.

Thank you! That system makes a lot of sense. It's too bad you have to do that though.

Thanks so much for following up on these. As a shower, I can always tell when the notices have gone out. :)

An idea. Is there any way to require completion of a paid show before the Paypal deadlines to file a claim, because if participants have paid and the show is never concluded or is retired, then the entrants never receive the service and could file. (One of the reasons the payments should never be made via Paypal friends and family because there's no way for the entrant to attempt to recover a fee paid for a show that isn't judged.)

Or, one more idea -- could hosts be required to earn the right to hold a fee show (other than the big, long-standing shows held by business entities like model manufacturers or clubs) after they have proven themselves by hosting a minimum number of free shows (1, 2, 3?) that are judged in a timely manner -- say within a one month time period? Just an idea, but I think this might help eliminate those who hold a show with fees but who don't have an established track record of actually completing a show. Shows are a lot of work and it's possible some new hosts don't understand how much time and effort goes into hosting -- and completing -- a show.

That idea for holding fee shows got my vote, Zia; it sounds both fair and practical.

I'd love to hold a small show myself, and even have a box of used but pristine ribbons set aside (throwing them away is not an option!), but with current Real Life Hurdles, there is NO WAY I could commit any time soon. Someday. Folks need to thoroughly consider that holding a show involves not only their time and effort, but that of their entrants, and plan accordingly. Because if you announce a party, guests WILL arrive! ;-D

pipapones said:

Right now, for unjudged shows we email hosts to give a reminder to judge their show after a few months of inactivity (so not slow judging, but no judging at all). If they don't respond within a certain time frame, we email again, then stating they have X amount of time to respond or their show will be "retired." Retired shows are automatically concluded. Any classes left unjudged are closed without results, classes that were judged keep their results. We've done this already for at least one show that was never finished and they never got back to us.

What seems to happen most is we email, no response, we email again with an ultimatum, they respond and say they are working on it, but it still takes a while. We'll be doing another round of these emails for late 2021 shows again soon, as those absolutely should be concluded by mid-2022 - any longer and it is simply unacceptable for all the entrants to wait that long.

There still are shows not judged. Is there a way to make a list of these shows/show holders, in a post - so that we can remember whose shows we may wish to not enter? I would not be inclined to enter another show held by same person if their previous one was never judged. I just don't have time to waste and am sure others feel the same.

We will not make a public callout post like that as it would likely lead to drama, same with negative rating systems. People could leave unfair ratings or claim a host should be added to the list due to sour grapes or similar situations. Hosts added to the list, even if fairly, could become quite upset and start arguments and fights. It is a can of worms we do not want to open. If you want to make a personal list for yourself of hosts you want to avoid, that's more than fine.

Of course, if there is an outright scammer - take the money and run type person - we will absolutely take action against that. If that happens and people report it to us so we are aware, the host will be banned from hosting again, period. Unfortunately, if payments are handled via Paypal/money orders/etc., there is nothing we can do to refund that money as it is completely out of our hands. Paying for shows is something you do at your own risk, but we would not let a scammer continue to use our platform to con people out of money.

I also see potential issues with requiring hosts to do a number of free shows first. What counts as an actual show and where does one draw the line? Could a host make a show with just 5 extremely limited classes, "judge" them at random, and then get to host the actual show they want to? What requirements would there need to be and how would they be interpreted?

As an alternative, we could add a badge/status to people who host shows successfully and regularly so users know what to expect in a positive light. The more shows hosted and concluded within a timely manner, perhaps a higher show host rating. Similar to the judge kudos system we have on our list to implement. That way, users can decide which shows feel are worth their time for what they are likely to get out of it.

Shows are quite time-consuming to host and especially judge. The platform is so large now that I think some new hosts get in a bit over their head if they have a free show with a lot of classes - there can be hundreds of entries in a single class, and that can take ages to go through. When the show creation system is overhauled (work in progress), we will be making a fresh new guide that we will include text outlining just how much work hosting a show is and what the host needs to expect/do to make sure it runs smoothly and timely.

All this said, we're going to do a bit of a purge to clear up these 6+ month old shows. Some of them are incredibly close to done - a few classes or a section or two left to judge - and some have resumed judging and are on track to finish soon, which we will be contacting hosts to do so ASAP. Others will be retired altogether. 2021 was our first year and I think a good litmus test on how these sort of things tend to go, so we will likely be drafting up a more specific protocol on when we are contacting hosts to when we are force retiring shows in order to keep things moving.

I like the ideas presented here, and I agree with the thoughts regarding the problems with a public announcement.

Something I would really love to see is a list of which shows a user judged/hosted, displayed on their profile. On the profile, there is a section that says how many shows they have judged, competitions, and horses placed. I would like to see that become a clickable note, so it will take you to exactly WHICH shows the user hosted or judged. :) It would make picking assistant judges easier, as well as helping to avoid problematic shows.

@bassgirl1970 >> Is there a way to make a list of these shows/show holders, in a post - so that we can remember whose shows we may wish to not enter?

@pipapones >> We will not make a public callout post like that as it would likely lead to drama,

There is a way to check this - without incurring potential drama.

If you click on the 'Shows' from the menu (at the top of this page), then click > 'Shows' again (from the drop-down menu) > then click the tab > 'Judging In Progress' > then click the"List" icon button, (just under the search toolbar), it'll bring up all the shows currently in progress, with the opening/closing date of registration. Scroll to the very bottom of the page to see which shows remain to be completed (there are three from 2021).

Yes, we know shows require a lot of time and effort to host, and especially judge. But it's no excuse to drag out a show for months on end.
Any show remaining from 2021 should be removed from the system, IMO.

@pipapones >> As an alternative, we could add a badge/status to people who host shows successfully

I really like this idea. 🙂

As further incentive to entrants and showers alike, I'd like to see OMHPS add an extra input field: JUDGING TIME FRAME
for hosts when setting up a show? If that's not possible, then as a host, I include this when setting up my shows -
out of fairness to my entrants who take the time and trouble to enter my shows.

I like the idea of a badging/honors reward system for successful hosts. I've had to retract horses from a show still lingering from last year because they were sold, and it's frustrating to not have an idea of when show hosts aim to have judging done, or to be able to easily ask about time frame. My messages to the host went unanswered. Having a judging time frame like another user suggested as a required field would be awesome!

Good points on the host status and I like the badge idea but I have a couple of questions.

When you say badges for those who hold "regular" shows, what would be the criteria for that? At least once a year?

Also on the shows that are closed/discontinued etc. due to non-completion by host/s, can you still allow models to receive the ribbons that were awarded, so the participants aren't penalized for hosts who don't follow through with completing the judging of all classes?

Thanks!

The badge would be dependent on how many shows they have concluded (key wording there - concluded, not just started). It would change (or "rank up") as they successfully host and complete more shows.

When a show is retired, any awards already given remain. The only thing that happens is all the unconcluded classes are closed as "unranked." Whatever has already been judged is left as-is.

Any news or updates on getting lingering shows judged or closed out? I have entries in at least two that are from last March and older that still aren't completed and/or no response from show host.

Thanks!

One lingering 2021 show was retired due to a lack of progress.

We have made contact with one of the hosts from another 2021 show that has just one class left. They said they would judge it approx. 2 weeks ago, however, they haven't done so yet, so likely we will be emailing them again in the next few days with a hard deadline or retirement.

The other two remaining 2021 shows have both made judging progress recently and are working towards being completed by their hosts.

We have a list of early 2022 shows that have not made any judging progress in 2+ months and are in the process of trying to reach the hosts to see if they are able to get those squared away soon or need help.

Beyond that, all other currently judging shows have made judging progress within the last two weeks. We do have a list that keeps track of that :) Going forward we will keep a pretty set schedule and may even create automated email notifications to hosts if the show stagnates for a certain period of time, to give reminders and hopefully keep things moving better.

Awesome, thank you! It's hard to tell if progress has been on shows, I don't know if there'd be a way for a shower to see that?

SpottedDreamsStudio said:

Something I would really love to see is a list of which shows a user judged/hosted, displayed on their profile. On the profile, there is a section that says how many shows they have judged, competitions, and horses placed. I would like to see that become a clickable note, so it will take you to exactly WHICH shows the user hosted or judged. :) It would make picking assistant judges easier, as well as helping to avoid problematic shows.

I love this idea! :)