Question on Show Ethics

I need some clarification on show ethics because I don't think this is stated anywhere in the rules. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

My understanding is that if a show host holds a show, they are not eligible to enter their own models in that show, even if they have others judges judging the classes they enter. Is that everyone's understanding or is it okay to enter a show you host as long as you are not the judge of the classes you enter? What's the general rule? Thank you.

Interesting question.

My personal opinion (and that is all it is), is that as the host, it is poor taste to enter your own models in any class in your own show, regardless of whether or not you are judging it. However, I think it's fine if a judge (who is not the host) enters in classes where they are not judging.

As far as I know, there is no "general rule" but more a general sense of what is unseemly or gives the appearance of cheating. I would shy from any practice that makes it look like favoritism could be at play. After all, some judges that are under the host could be tempted to place the host's models higher.

But hey, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. I would be interested in hearing other's thoughts as well.

Thanks for your response. :) I have the same general outlook, but I know there may be some differences of opinion. I hope a few others will chime in with their thoughts.

Like SpottedDreamsStudio said, there is no general rule outside of, for example, NAMHSA where this is strictly prohibited.

I have found this varies by area showing in. Being a US shower originally, I was also under the same impression. However, after I moved overseas and started showing in Europe, I found that this is not necessarily the case everywhere. It is a lot more common for hosts to show models in their own shows here and that is considered totally fine by most as long as they aren't the one judging the classes. Not every host does it but I see it a lot more here. Even under BMECS, as far as I can tell and have seen, a host can enter their own show AND win cards.

I do see how it feels like it could be cheating. The host selects the judges, after all. But it can also be done completely straight and the judges can strive to judge completely unbiased and purely on the merits of the models on the table/gallery. It's a bit tricky, for sure.

All that said, if there does ever appear to be heavy bias in a show (to a host or otherwise), and there is ample enough evidence of it, you can always report it to the admin email.

Thanks for your response and clarification. I'm seeing hosts starting to enter the shows they host, so that's why I raised the question. OMHPS does have the advantage of the judging being "blind" (meaning the judges can't see who owns any of the models when using the judging component) which helps keep the playing field level. Personally, I'd love to be able to enter some of the shows I host provided I'm NOT judging the class/section/division, but I've always believed that would be unethical. Apparently, that mindset is changing. I'll have to give this some further thought. Thanks for clarifying. :)

Thank you, pipapones, for your information. That is very helpful.

I agree with Zialander that it would be nice sometimes to enter in your own shows (with different judges). If this practice does become common practice on OMHPS, I hope it is used with discretion and no problems arise. This is such a fantastic website, and it would be a shame to see it spoiled by cheating. I'm truly thankful for the moderation and time that is put in to keeping things on the level. :)

As a rule, I generally do not enter any of my horses in any show I host — whether it's an online photo show, or a live show.

As far as Live Shows are concerned, NAMHSA has established the following rule:

No showholder [...] may enter a NAN-qualifying division at a show held by the same showholder

However, if I am not the host of a show (be it an online photo show, or a live show), but am a judge instead, then it's my understanding that it's perfectly OK to enter your models in any show you are judging, as long as it's not a class or division you have your own horse(s) in.

Per NAMHSA's Essential Fairness Requirements:

A person may not show and judge in the same division at a NAMHSA member show.

This is from my own Judge's Code of Ethics:

Conflict of Interest
Judge's must avoid conflicts of interest between themselves and entrants in any show they judge. A
conflict of interest is declared in a situation whereby a judge encounters one of their own horses they
have created, customized, or photographed— in any division or class they are judging.

From an European perspective, I do agree that it vary from case to case and person to person. If it comes to Photo Shows, I do not enter the shows I'm hosting, no matter if I judge or no. There is plenty of shows to choose from and enter, so I do not find the reason (for myself!) to enter my own shows - but what I'm hosting is "standard" Halter & Workmanship, so there always will be shows with those two.

If it comes to Live Showing tho, in my country this year might be the first ever to hold two shows in a year. Through all those years there were only 4 Live Shows hosted here, and one is my own, doing second edition this year. With this limited options, I find it fair to allow myself and other host to enter the show as any other person would - I'm working hard to make this event happen, I'm not gaining any income or exposure from this, so the least I can have is fun from actually showing. That also applies to judges - they can enter the show too. The only rule is simple - no entering the class you're judging. Although I trust my judges and I know even if they entered their models, they would still judge them objectively and fair, I just don't want the possible bias "allegations".

So, if I saw someone enter their own show, either photo or live, would I have an opinion about them? No. Would I feel threatened by possible bias or check all the classes for their results? Also no, cause I always first assume fair intention. But I know opinions may vary by person, country, group etc.

And to add, I think a lot also depends on transparency. For my show, it is stated from the get go that the hosts and judges can enter the classes they are not judging. We also have public list of judges with info what classes they judge and their experience, so enterants can evaluate themselves if they are fine with entering their classes. It's all there and if someone does not agree, they do not have to enter. So far we had no problems or complaints about this system, thus I think it would be fine for Photo Shows as well with all that info listed.

Like I said, I trust my judges and I know I'm choosing people that will judge the horse, not the owner. More so, I know they would be more prone to undervalue their own models rather than overvalue, lol! But it's still kind of a "safety" measure, cause you might have 20 super cool and chill enterants, but 21st might strongly disagree and cause unneccessary nerves for everyone, especially the judges that basically offer free work and help with the show.

Thanks for your thoughts and examples, Endless.

Thanks for your thoughts and the NAMHSA wording, Appaloosa.

I just saw this thread -

I personally would never have even considered entering my horses in a class I myself was judging. I've judged in a show where I've had entrants in different classes, but not the same class. I have also been in shows where it was clearly stated "the judge owns X number of horses that were entered in this class but they were not judged this month" in a year-long show with monthly rounds of judging. I did have it happen that someone entered and judged their own horses in a show I entered recently and no, the judge didn't just place all their own first, but still... it's not a good look IMO.

Sorry, just seeing your response now. You raised some good points.

(BTW, I'm pretty sure I know which show you were referring to that had the monthly shows. I judged divisions for that show a couple of times and, as you said, because my models were entered in previous months, they were already in the classes. I just sidelined my own with a note on the showholder's spreadsheet that they weren't judged. If I'm right it was held on one of the photo sites. Kind of sad that one went away.)

Anyway, after a lot of thought on points made in this thread, I've decided against entering my own models in the shows I host, even if I'm not the judge for the sections or divisions I enter. To me, it just doesn't seem right. Obviously, not everyone agrees on that point, but even if they're not judging the class/section/division, they are still the show creator, so it just feels "off" to me. I once saw a show where a model owned by the host advanced to Section Champion and it made me very uncomfortable. If I don't enter any classes for the shows I host, I'll never find myself in that situation.

Just wanted to add, I have no problem with judges of the show (other than the host) entering models in sections/divisions they don't judge, because I feel that's a different scenario. They aren't hosting and didn't create the show, so I don't see a problem with that.

Thanks for your feedback!

TOPSA is still around on Smugmug, which is the monthly show I meant - I'm sure the contact information would be the same as in the past

I agree, I've no plans to enter my own horses in my shows here or on my facebook page (Freeman Stables)

Oh, no, it wasn't TOPSA. The one I was referring to sounds like it was organized and conducted in a very similar way though. Sadly, it went defunct in 2021. OMHPS is my go-to show site now, though I do occasionally enter a couple of shows on FB.

Thanks. :)